Curse

cormac ap dunn · Jan 20, 2012, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Here's a simple idea, I think it could do worlds of good for HA. HA is all but empty. New players shy away from the format for many reasons( frustration in finding a group, elitism making some aspects of the game near impossible to just pick up, Rank discrimination being the main cause.), and without new players the game stagnates.

Solution: Teams are matched by rank ; r0-3, r4-6, r7-9, r10+ or something along those lines. It creates a balance between teams, eliminates farming lowbie players to grind ranks, and creates an environment more conducive to new players.

Upon hitting r4 for example, a player will be unable to join a team with players below his rank. Same applies for every transitional rank. Players with experience get to play at the level they are comfortable, competition will be on par with their ability.

Newer players will be more evenly matched with players in their respective play levels. This will allow more casual players to gain the valuable experience they require, and still be able to play in an evenly matched environment.

I think that separating districts by rank rather then by location will also allow for better team formation.

It had been suggested that HA go the way of RA and do random team matching. At that rate it might be easier to add restrictions on team composition (no more then 2 of any class in a team for example.), which would also balance game play quite a bit, reducing spiking, ball healing, and forcing innovation, though I don't feel randomizing HA is a valid solution.

So there it is, I would love to see any other ideas, or suggestions on here.

Tweetygirl · Jan 20, 2012, 02:16 PM // 14:16

So what about players who are playing in a guild/alliance, that are all higher ranks, you would now be unable to play with these people.

The PvPrs in HA ruined there own format by pushing those who tried to get into it out, and now there all crying its dead.

Random does not work in HA, its a structured PVP arena for dedicated teams, and the rewards match that,

And no i dont do HA.

drowze · Jan 20, 2012, 02:24 PM // 14:24

A system that put people of similar rank against each other would be nice, but such a thing should be implemented from the start of the game (imho). In such a scenario I would split HA into different arenas: one for r0-3, one for r4-6.... you could then put more tactical maps in the high rank arenas and easy annihilation maps in low rank arenas.
Splitting up the almost non-existant HA player base (I mean pugs), would mean noone would get to play at all, I'd think.
That's my 2 cents, but I don't really pvp anyway ><

Lillium · Jan 20, 2012, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Limiting grouping (by an account wide title, no less) could cause problems at different ranks for just plain finding people within your rank, specifically those that have less people (ex, mid ranks).
Wait times are also likely to increase, but I don't really know how much of a problem that may or may not be.

Perhaps groups could match a team based on the player in the party with the highest rank. Or, if that's a potential problem for farming low rank players, the group average. A rank averaged group could be weighted towards the rank of most players in the group, in the case of a party with something like 7 r0-3's and 1 r10+, to make sure they still compete in the lowest tier.
This completely does not address high rank players on alternate low rank accounts.

$.02 from a PvE player. The reason I don't PvP is not because of rank discrimination, nor is it poorly matched teams. While I like random groups for PvP more then selected groups, changing a format like HA to random would not attract me, it would simply destroy a format.
The reason I do not PvP is simply because I do not like PvP. Sure, I've bounced around the different formats just to see the maps and whatnot. And I didn't return simply because PvP doesn't interest me. I wasn't offended, I wasn't affronted; I simply am not interested in that part of this (or any other) game. Many, maaaany PvE players will say the same thing, and we don't want to try to be "attracted" to the PvP formats.
As for new players... There's hardly any of those. There's more people getting bored with the game and leaving then there are actual new people coming in or old players returning in anticipation for GW2. They all want 30-50 in their HoM, and maybe a GWAMM. While they may be pushed out of HA due to its many problems, they're much more likely not interested in the first place (particularly if they have read guides or forums topics in preparation) as HA (and PvP in general) is perhaps the slowest way to meet their goals.

Missing HB · Jan 20, 2012, 03:18 PM // 15:18

I swear this thread will get deleted as you didn't really get that rank discrimination isn't the main reason HA is empty( every format is empty in fact, and the reason of this is quite obvious...)

Even assuming it was the problem, the idea doesn't fit with inactivity...You would basically divide the low population into several parts.. In theory, that works if there are a lot of players from each level, but unfortunately, here is what would happen :
- most " addicted " players wouldn't get any more opponent and would use second accounts to play on lower ranks
- higher rank players wouldn't get any more opponents and fair players would stop
- the place ends in a similar GvG bis : randomways get farmed by top players faking their rank...

I don't also think the idea of " not being able to take people from higher rank" is really good and fun.. We would need a lot more than 24 players to make the format active, and it's really already a pain to find those...

So, /not signed

Fluffy Kittens · Jan 20, 2012, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Are you trolling or what???? Seriously, this rank discrimination is getting boring. Get good, make friends and play. I never complained about rank, I worked my way up to high rank by playing against high ranked people and you should do the same. You can't expect everything to be easy like it is in pve with consets and heroes.

Venganza · Jan 20, 2012, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Props for your ideas, however it won't work.

Dividing what is already a wasteland would be sheer folly.

PvP is simply a basket case, those who still play are chasing PvE titles simple as that.

Ask most guild leaders how many inactive people in rosters, it is endemic

drkn · Jan 20, 2012, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

$.02 from a PvE player. The reason I don't PvP is not because of rank discrimination, nor is it poorly matched teams. While I like random groups for PvP more then selected groups, changing a format like HA to random would not attract me, it would simply destroy a format.
The reason I do not PvP is simply because I do not like PvP. Sure, I've bounced around the different formats just to see the maps and whatnot. And I didn't return simply because PvP doesn't interest me. I wasn't offended, I wasn't affronted; I simply am not interested in that part of this (or any other) game. Many, maaaany PvE players will say the same thing, and we don't want to try to be "attracted" to the PvP formats.

Here's a long-time PvEr with GWAMM and 50/50 obtained for three accounts. I got severely bored with PvE in the process, so i decided to play the market more... and get into PvP.
I did encounter rank discrimination. Even after joining 'newbie-friendly' HA guild, i could never get into a team unless six other players were offline (and i'm not talking about the 'core team' composed of r10+ people). After finally getting into a group, the officers decided to run r-spike, and r-spike only, with the newbies. I'm fine with that, but then imagine how many wins we had over hours upon hours of playtime... nearly none.
I proposed running another build - sure, i was well aware we weren't going to win a lot, being composed of newbies led by two-three experienced players (not very top, too), but once we learned the basics of r-spike and we saw how HA looks (a lot of us have never been to a HA match before, though two guys were r7+ glad), we wanted to learn something different. My suggestion was declined and when i asked why, i was kicked from the guild for 'arguing with an officer'.

So then i tried to pug my own group of like-minded people who wanted to get into HA. I spammed even outside HA outpost to gather the party, and finally succeeded - after a few hours (because, you know - i found two guys in LA, but before i found three more in GToB, one of the original two left, and so on...). One of them was even r4, yay.
After sorting out all the builds (led by the r4) and beating the zaishen, we got into the first match and, surprise surprise, got steamrolled. It happened a few times more, in a row, and people started to leave. In 20+ games, we won three times - once we even met bots who quickly resigned.

I tried a bit later on, joined a HA guild as well (again, got into the group a few times before the guild totally dissolved), tried some pugs, but it's of no use. So i decided to ditch HA and focus on RA, even though i was really, really interested in getting into HA - and i thought that PvPers would be so as well, since it's one more dedicated player towards a 'dead format'.

With all the above said, i believe there are two biggest problems with HA (and, to lesser extent, GvG and, even lesser, AB).
First of all, you can't practice by yourself. You can't get familiar with the maps, or how the format is played, or what people run there (by actually watching them play it, being part of that game) unless you find seven other people who would like to try themselves. Compare it to JQ, where a total newbie can just hit "Enter" with any skills, and even if they won't kill anyone, or contribute to the team, they may learn the map, the common builds, get accustomed to the carriers' speed, etc. Take RA - you can be a newbie in PvP, aspiring to monking in RA, and even though you lose the first 20 matches (if you're THAT bad), you at least learn something - and you don't need to bother three (or, oh gods, seven) other people in order to do so. Sure, other RAers might comment your shitty monking, so you need a thick skin when getting into PvP, and THAT is actually quite understandable... other PvP player-induced problems, however, are not.
Second thing is, that even after you finally form a group or get into one, you get easily steamrolled by semi-experienced or very experienced groups. Let's assume that there are five r0 players, led by two or three r10+. If they meet a group of r5-r7, they are easily beaten. If they meet a group of r10+... well, there's nothing to mop up. After a while, the r10+ leaders - usually on monks - get annoyed and bored with such a situation, and start leaving. Not surprising, eh?

So, the only way the playerbase itself might try to heal the format is organising teaching guilds, or accepting r0 newbies into their ranks, and playing with them. HOWEVER the team shouldn't be composed of newbies, led by highly ranked monks - no, it should actually be the other way around, with only one or two r0's per group. This way, they may actually pick something from their teammates, and a group like that may win some matches, positively buffing the morale of everyone.
This way would require forming quite a bunch of incubator-guilds like that, not two or three total.

From ANet's side, there are two possibilities - breaking down HA into two, or more, outposts with respective rank ranges, or making HA randomized. The latter would actually kill the format, since being organised is one of its main reasons to exist. The former would prove difficult not only in implementation, but also wouldn't really heal HA, given its low playerbase nowadays.

So, how about mixing the two ways?
Break HA into two outposts.
The first would be for players (let's say) r0-r6, and it would be randomised. Some additional mechanics might be added to the randomisation process, so that we don't end up with a team of eight monks all the time. The rewards for winning would be much smaller, except for fame gained.
The second outpost would be for r7+ players, and it would be organised - it would work just as HA works nowadays.
On top of that, the requirements of fame for ranks could be cut down a bit, or fame might be acquired a bit faster than now - if not for r7+, then for the low-tier outpost.

cormac ap dunn · Jan 20, 2012, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

I swear this thread will get deleted as you didn't really get that rank discrimination isn't the main reason HA is empty( every format is empty in fact, and the reason of this is quite obvious...)

Even assuming it was the problem, the idea doesn't fit with inactivity...You would basically divide the low population into several parts.. In theory, that works if there are a lot of players from each level, but unfortunately, here is what would happen :
- most " addicted " players wouldn't get any more opponent and would use second accounts to play on lower ranks
- higher rank players wouldn't get any more opponents and fair players would stop
- the place ends in a similar GvG bis : randomways get farmed by top players faking their rank...

I don't also think the idea of " not being able to take people from higher rank" is really good and fun.. We would need a lot more than 24 players to make the format active, and it's really already a pain to find those...

So, /not signed

I think you are missing the point. Poor or no accessabilty = low population. If you devide the ranks sure it will take some time, but that population can rank up a lot faster instead of giving up due to being farming fodder. I think the main reason the average ranked player would oppose this is NOT being able to farm low ranked players. assuming a divided rank was implemented, higher ranked players would be unaffected. In the while lower ranked players would have an easier time ranking up. Truly the only loss would be to rank farmers. I have yet to see a ranked group take a no or low ranked player. If ranked players were forced to play within their ranks ot would only make HA more of a challenge, isn't that the point?

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Are you trolling or what???? Seriously, this rank discrimination is getting boring. Get good, make friends and play. I never complained about rank, I worked my way up to high rank by playing against high ranked people and you should do the same. You can't expect everything to be easy like it is in pve with consets and heroes.

Nothing about this would be easier, same game, just no rank RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs keeping people out , or farming them.
Hell, read drkn's post, its almost always a slaughter fest assuming anyone even gets in. I understand that the handful of Hardcore PvPers are all about staying in tiny groups, and keeping the world out (hell, thats how PvXwiki does everything) but thats why your format is dead, you honestly did it to yourselves. When anyone suggests changing that by bringing in new players we get responses pretty much like this "NO GO GRIND LIKE WE DID!!!" Really? How many people got Bambi playing Iway? Exactly...

Missing HB · Jan 20, 2012, 04:03 PM // 16:03

I do understand your point, but that's quite the reason why do people smurf in GvG...Matches are made according to whether you are worthy or not, and it's been shown than not many top100 are playing rated matchs on ladder, whereas there tend to be a few players on lower ranks.. It still happens that those people go smurf on lower rank, thus matchs are faster but those low ranks are still getting farmed...

The place is empty, when i go there i just want to take anyone to go fast, although i am r12, if i see there are few players inside. Only addicts or ridiculous players would just want absolutely r12 players, even if they had to wait hours... Besides, alliance battles or codex arena are empty( or very low population), but it's nothing with the low accessability...

If you have a correct level at mathematics , you can apply to this a population check with variables to each rank and see the obvious problems after some periods..

gremlin · Jan 20, 2012, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Its debatable whether splitting the pvp population by rank at this stage will hasten or slow the demise.
There are lessons to be learned for the future on how to run pvp, I favor a league system and always have.

Want a fun experience play with the beginners want a challenge move up to a higher ranked area.
Win enough and your forced to move up anyway.

I hope for the sake of gw1 generally some form of pvp remains for those who stay.

cormac ap dunn · Jan 20, 2012, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

I do understand your point, but that's quite the reason why do people smurf in GvG...Matches are made according to whether you are worthy or not, and it's been shown than not many top100 are playing rated matchs on ladder, whereas there tend to be a few players on lower ranks.. It still happens that those people go smurf on lower rank, thus matchs are faster but those low ranks are still getting farmed...

The place is empty, when i go there i just want to take anyone to go fast, although i am r12, if i see there are few players inside. Only addicts or ridiculous players would just want absolutely r12 players, even if they had to wait hours... Besides, alliance battles or codex arena are empty( or very low population), but it's nothing with the low accessability...

If you have a correct level at mathematics , you can apply to this a population check with variables to each rank and see the obvious problems after some periods..

Granted its a very temporary solution, but adding that it would allow easier access via no trepidation about being pushed out due to lack of rank, that population would blossom rather quickly. Once people have excelled past their lower ranks, moving on to the next area would naturally grow the population. Its a double edged sword in that, for a short time the higher ranked players would see little to no population growth, inevitably players would gain ranks, and that population would then grow.

@ gremlin, as much as I like the idea of league play, it would do about the same thing. Good suggestion.

Martin Alvito · Jan 20, 2012, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

I think you are missing the point. Poor or no accessabilty = low population.

You don't solve an inactivity problem by further segmenting the population. Worse, I can tell you exactly what happens if we implement your suggestion:

Red /resign. If you guarantee low rank PvE players the opportunity to match up exclusively with low rank PvE players, they're simply going to exploit the Zaishen quest for free ZKeys.

People that complain about rank discrimination and elitism simply haven't experienced the problem from the other side. One subpar player can and will sink your team, and the best teams didn't get that way by bringing players that can't do their job. You should think less about what a prospective team can do for you, and more about how you can show a prospective team that you're worth taking.

cormac ap dunn · Jan 20, 2012, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

You don't solve an inactivity problem by further segmenting the population. Worse, I can tell you exactly what happens if we implement your suggestion:

Red /resign. If you guarantee low rank PvE players the opportunity to match up exclusively with low rank PvE players, they're simply going to exploit the Zaishen quest for free ZKeys.

People that complain about rank discrimination and elitism simply haven't experienced the problem from the other side. One subpar player can and will sink your team, and the best teams didn't get that way by bringing players that can't do their job. You should think less about what a prospective team can do for you, and more about how you can show a prospective team that you're worth taking.

Then force the zcombat to change as well, HA has relatively nice rewards as it stands. Make the Zcombat ranked as well. The higher the Rank, the Higher the difficulty, the higher the rewards.
As to having experienced the other side , I have seen what a bad player can do to a good group. But being forced to either BE ranked or GTFO is a condition of the system our own players have implemented. If HA players are content to only play the same 100 players for the rest of eternity so be it, but then don't complain about outposts you found a way to empty yourselves. As a higher ranked player with the system I suggest, those low ranked players you say can drag you down will have no impact on you, as they wouldn't be something you would even see until they have that precious experience. If High ranked play is the only concern, then there is 0 effect on your gameplay, that is , unless you are farming low groups, in which case, your out of luck.

There is no effect on the PvP population if we segment lower players, as you aren't taking them anyway. All this would do is segment the higher ranks from the lower, insuring newer players have an equal opportunity to play and enjoy the format.

Martin Alvito · Jan 20, 2012, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

Then force the zcombat to change as well, HA has relatively nice rewards as it stands. Make the Zcombat ranked as well. The higher the Rank, the Higher the difficulty, the higher the rewards.

Which will solve nothing, since your hypothetical PvE players that /resign will rapidly get enough fame to reach the higher tiers of rewards.

Eventually they'll reach a tier where people actually play, get trashed repeatedly and either quit or switch to an alternate account and repeat the process.

I fail to see how this improves things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

As a higher ranked player with the system I suggest, those low ranked players you say can drag you down will have no impact on you, as they wouldn't be something you would even see until they have that precious experience.

So failing to match for hours on end, or facing the same opponent repeatedly would be a good thing? People already run teams of alts during off-peak hours just so that they can get a match to spawn in Halls. Locking the scrubs out confers the opportunity to sit in Halls for hours on end abusing /resign for fame and profit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

There is no effect on the PvP population if we segment lower players, as you aren't taking them anyway. All this would do is segment the higher ranks from the lower, insuring newer players have an equal opportunity to play and enjoy the format.

Which is an incredibly terrible idea for the reasons above. You solve an inactivity problem by getting the players to pool in the same place, not by balkanizing them further.

drowze · Jan 20, 2012, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

People that complain about rank discrimination and elitism simply haven't experienced the problem from the other side. One subpar player can and will sink your team, and the best teams didn't get that way by bringing players that can't do their job.

First, I get your point, and understand where you're coming from. And I'm not gonna whine about rank discrimination, because from my experience I encountered enough people that didn't care about rank (my g2 helped to show I do have some very basic experience in pvp though).

True that one player that's sub-par has an impact on the team, but if you aren't taken in by any team, you aren't going to learn to play better either. When I was trying to slowly work my way towards a bambi with pugs, I was lucky enough that from time to time high-ranked teams took me in. Sure, they would have been alot better with a decent front-liner instead of me, being all ignorant spamming my derv skills. But thanks to them I learned some basics that other low ranked players wouldn't be able to (or wouldn't bother to) teach me. Hell, I was even allowed to play mesmer in an r7/8 team, when I didn't even have r3 ><. When the format is as dead as it is, giving new players a chance to show they can learn something is the only way to keep it alive a bit, I think.

What surprised me the most about HA is that after getting r3 with pugging, I took a small break. When I came back about a month later, there was litteraly no pugs forming (neither high or low rank, or even randomways). And it seems it's still that empty nowadays... How come it bled out so fast?

SlippinOnSizzurp · Jan 20, 2012, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Higher ranked PvPers become hostile so quickly to newcomers because the newcomers don't listen. If the r0 newcomers were willing to listen to what the more experinced players tell them, they wouldn't be yelled at so much. Its funny to see these PvE kids that think after an hour of PvPing they are going to be able to compete with the higher rank PvPers. You need to understand these players have spent hundreds of hours PvPing. Your going to get rolled many times before you get good. You can't come in with the expectation your going to win every time. You have to put in hard work and time like the higher rank players did, they didn't get there over night and nor will you.

All you have to do is open your ears and listen to the more experinced players. I guarantee any newcomer who approaches a higher rank player and asks questions will NOT be turned away. They may not be willing to allow you into their current group, however after they are done farming their fame they would gladly offer to help. After every GvG match (I'm a gvger not HAer) with a low end guild I say 'GG, pm me if you need a guest'. If the Pvers are willing to listen/learn any GvGer/Haer will help you and your guild.

Next time any newcomer wants to form up GvG/HA. Ask questions and please listen to the answers. They (PvPers) might seem rough around the edges, but I find 90% of them will be more than willing to answer any of your questions.

Best of luck,
Slippin

Side Note: I don't claim to be good at PvP, I just enjoy it.

Fluffy Kittens · Jan 20, 2012, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Red /resign. If you guarantee low rank PvE players the opportunity to match up exclusively with low rank PvE players, they're simply going to exploit the Zaishen quest for free ZKeys.

People that complain about rank discrimination and elitism simply haven't experienced the problem from the other side. One subpar player can and will sink your team, and the best teams didn't get that way by bringing players that can't do their job. You should think less about what a prospective team can do for you, and more about how you can show a prospective team that you're worth taking.

pretty much /winthread post

Problem with most of pve players is they don't wanna try to get better, they just want everything to be easy. I'm strongly against this idea, I want to get rewarded for my skill and hard work I put in the game, I refuse to have the same rewards as some guy wiht barely 20 hours of pvp experience.

cormac ap dunn · Jan 20, 2012, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Which will solve nothing, since your hypothetical PvE players that /resign will rapidly get enough fame to reach the higher tiers of rewards.

Eventually they'll reach a tier where people actually play, get trashed repeatedly and either quit or switch to an alternate account and repeat the process.

I fail to see how this improves things.

And my point is made, they get trashed, they quit and move on, those that actually enjoy playing and CAN do so would only improve a dead game. Every zcombat has its downside. Offer no zcombat for HA for all I care. Hardcore players aren't there for the zcombat rewards anyway, and given the formats already ample rewards, there isn't a need for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

So failing to match for hours on end, or facing the same opponent repeatedly would be a good thing? People already run teams of alts during off-peak hours just so that they can get a match to spawn in Halls. Locking the scrubs out confers the opportunity to sit in Halls for hours on end abusing /resign for fame and profit.

Taking Part of a quote to suit your own needs is effective

It already happens, I fail to see the difference there... You already lock the "scrubs" out, you already wait for hours for a match IF you are lucky AND you already face the exact same opponents constantly.... poor argument there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Which is an incredibly terrible idea for the reasons above. You solve an inactivity problem by getting the players to pool in the same place, not by balkanizing them further.

Where do you think they would go? They would go to there own Districts as suggested... The only real difference is that you would never have to deal with the "scrubs"... Its get better by learning or never move on... Not sure what you fear so much, is it that you might have more people playing the dead PvP? Loss of Epeen? Not sure what you oppose about it... clarify what would happen in a format that already has all the problems you think "might" happen, because for my money you are too late.

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

pretty much /winthread post

Problem with most of pve players is they don't wanna try to get better, they just want everything to be easy. I'm strongly against this idea, I want to get rewarded for my skill and hard work I put in the game, I refuse to have the same rewards as some guy wiht barely 20 hours of pvp experience.

Ah so for you it IS loss of epeen... they make meds for that I think... You must be very lonely since you refuse to share your experience... seems you like the idea of a dead format, OK. Go to PvE, you can pretty much play alone, would seem thats what you want.

DiogoSilva · Jan 20, 2012, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Problem with most of pve players is they don't wanna try to get better

Problem with the minority of PvE players (which i'm sure it's still plenty of them) that do want to get better, is that they don't even bother to try to play HA, or else they'd need to spend hours not playing the game to find other people and/ or do obscure stuff like going to forums asking for help.

Quote:

they just want everything to be easy.

Huge generalization. There are plenty of good PvE players, regardless of how many kids play PvE.

Quote:

I want to get rewarded for my skill and hard work I put in the game, I refuse to have the same rewards as some guy wiht barely 20 hours of pvp experience.

I play RA occasionaly because, you know, I actually get to play it, and I'm rewarded for my skill and investment. Ridiculous, right? I can consistently get more zboxes and zkeys for RA than a newbie! AB used to be like this too, when it was alive. Sure, random formats depend a lot on luck, but bad players screw their teams in RA/ AB over time nonetheless. JQ/ FA might be the exception because of the way they work (no streaks like RA, no organized team forming like AB).

I'd love for AB/ HA to have the option for random play in addition to team creation OR be totally randomized but with organized tournaments for the best players. Ah, and no title/ emote show for HA. Regardless of what some elites try to say even when the evidence is against them, when I and many others try to join a team in HA, it IS the title that determines who is to be accepted or not.

EDIT: And tone down the HA rewards if it were to be randomized, if it's needed. GvG is still there for the best players, it's also the better format, and casuals would have a new, fun option for 8v8 pvp instead of something dead.